in my country we use exlamation mark in parenthesis. " (!) " according to wikipedia. karl max was using it. It works just fine. just put it at the end of the phrase
andrews as i said. that was my answer to the practical question. which means "in the real world" In theoretical part ofcourse we know what tangent means right?
if you read my previous posts you will see that in mathematical part i have already said the touching area is smaller than any given dimension. I understand and know what you are saying. i cant put them in words as well as you do =)
i will try to rephrase what i said so we can understand each other. since we are practicaly saying the same thing
if there was a perfect sphere in real world (as you demonstrated it is not possible. maybe if we could manipulate electrons as we wish we could make them touch and see. since they are roughly sphare shaped)and push this infinitly rigid sphare to an infinitly rigid perfectly plane surface, the interdection between two objects would be a point as geometry suggests. this kind of touching is not defined in physical world. where matter is concerned, as you said there is no touching at all, what we call matter is mostly empty space so i tried to redifine touching to give the question an answer. it looked like the only way. so i said "two objects are touching if the contact area between them is > 0. if it is zero there is no contact therefore they are not touching. if these shapes are perfect as the question states than they can not touch each other since the area of a point is zero.
again i did this to the "projection" of a theoretical question in real world. assuming there is a perfect sphare.
the answer does not have real scientific value. it is just a "what if" scenario i created.
i hope it is clear that im not mixing math and positive science byt mistake. im doing it on purpose so i can make this stupid question born from ignorance a little bit more concrete by projecting it's completely immaginary nature to real world making assumptions and giving it my own answer "inside the context of weird mixture of science and immagination i created"
this has gone for too long =) i will rest my argument repeating it. this is a stupid question =)
The thing is, there is no point talking about electrons or anything. As you have already said. such object cant be made with "matter" as we know it. As we keep thinking about it it makes less and less sense. As i said couple of times before, the question is wrong.
if the contact area of 2 objects is zero they do NOT touch each other. A perfect sphere (not possible in physical world) and a perfect plane has contact area of zero. therefore i say: A perfect sphere and a perfect plane can never touch each other. thats my answer to the theoretical part. the practical part... well.. it doesn't exist
The question SEEMS complex because you are trying to rationalise an impossibility. The question we are arguing is not a real questioni it just sounds like one because of the language's (here it is english language) inability to distinguish the terms.
Human intuition tells us that if you drop a perfect sphere on a perfect plane, they touch. This is what we observe on daily basis or we THINK we observe.
Such thing does not exist. there is no contact area. Therefore the question: "what is the size of the contact area? " is misleading. there is no answer to the question. becaouse the question is not valid. It is like asking "what happens if a goldfish forgets to wear his tie to work" goldfishes do not go to work an do not wear ties.
you can however create a fantasy world where fishes go to work (like in spongebob) and try to answer the question in the context of this artificial world. We call this mathematics. The question is a physics question but if you want to answer to this immaginary situation you can use math to imagine what happens.
what happens is this:
you can ASSUME there is a contact area albeit smaller than any immaginable dimension. so the area can be expressed with lim-->0 (sorry cant use math signs here. the answer will have some value but will not answer your questions since a quantity infinetely close to zero(infinetely smaller than planck length)can be only percieved as zero in a practical world.
? said it before and i will say it again:
the question is NOT valid. it assumes there is a contact area and asks how big it is. there is NO contact area. You can think that if there is no contact area there is no force to keep the ball on top of the plane (if gravity is aplied) so it falls through it etc. etc. etc. but again... the question is not inside the physics domain.
you may try for days to wrap your head around this and you would fail because you are asking the wrong questions. quit trying to find out how this is possible and think is it is possible at all
That does not exist. what you describe as hot is the measurement of temperature and therefore the thermic energy of an object. There is no such limit. If you keep giving thermic energy to an object it will heat up as long as you keep heating it up.
Absolute zero is the absence of energy not the temperature all motion stops. It is as immaginary as the contact area given in the question above
I don't believe im replyinbg to this but here I go:
The contact in the question is a "point" which is described as (quoting from wikipedia)In geometry, points are zero-dimensional; i.e., they do not have volume, area, length, or any other higher-dimensional analogue.
the answer is: contact area is ZERO. end of story
If you insist on trying to calculate the forces or the pressure created by the sphere etc. you are welcome to try. Points are immaginary. physics does not deal with immanginary. non such calculation can be made. you cant calculate the friction or pressure (for example) because they would require dividing a number to zero. answers are not "infinite" or "nill" they are impossible.
in my country we use exlamation mark in parenthesis. " (!) " according to wikipedia. karl max was using it. It works just fine. just put it at the end of the phrase
if you read my previous posts you will see that in mathematical part i have already said the touching area is smaller than any given dimension. I understand and know what you are saying. i cant put them in words as well as you do =)
i will try to rephrase what i said so we can understand each other. since we are practicaly saying the same thing
if there was a perfect sphere in real world (as you demonstrated it is not possible. maybe if we could manipulate electrons as we wish we could make them touch and see. since they are roughly sphare shaped)and push this infinitly rigid sphare to an infinitly rigid perfectly plane surface, the interdection between two objects would be a point as geometry suggests. this kind of touching is not defined in physical world. where matter is concerned, as you said there is no touching at all, what we call matter is mostly empty space so i tried to redifine touching to give the question an answer. it looked like the only way. so i said "two objects are touching if the contact area between them is > 0. if it is zero there is no contact therefore they are not touching. if these shapes are perfect as the question states than they can not touch each other since the area of a point is zero.
again i did this to the "projection" of a theoretical question in real world. assuming there is a perfect sphare.
the answer does not have real scientific value. it is just a "what if" scenario i created.
i hope it is clear that im not mixing math and positive science byt mistake. im doing it on purpose so i can make this stupid question born from ignorance a little bit more concrete by projecting it's completely immaginary nature to real world making assumptions and giving it my own answer "inside the context of weird mixture of science and immagination i created"
this has gone for too long =) i will rest my argument repeating it. this is a stupid question =)
have a nice day
The thing is, there is no point talking about electrons or anything. As you have already said. such object cant be made with "matter" as we know it. As we keep thinking about it it makes less and less sense. As i said couple of times before, the question is wrong.
if the contact area of 2 objects is zero they do NOT touch each other. A perfect sphere (not possible in physical world) and a perfect plane has contact area of zero. therefore i say: A perfect sphere and a perfect plane can never touch each other. thats my answer to the theoretical part. the practical part... well.. it doesn't exist
Human intuition tells us that if you drop a perfect sphere on a perfect plane, they touch. This is what we observe on daily basis or we THINK we observe.
Such thing does not exist. there is no contact area. Therefore the question: "what is the size of the contact area? " is misleading. there is no answer to the question. becaouse the question is not valid. It is like asking "what happens if a goldfish forgets to wear his tie to work" goldfishes do not go to work an do not wear ties.
you can however create a fantasy world where fishes go to work (like in spongebob) and try to answer the question in the context of this artificial world. We call this mathematics. The question is a physics question but if you want to answer to this immaginary situation you can use math to imagine what happens.
what happens is this:
you can ASSUME there is a contact area albeit smaller than any immaginable dimension. so the area can be expressed with lim-->0 (sorry cant use math signs here. the answer will have some value but will not answer your questions since a quantity infinetely close to zero(infinetely smaller than planck length)can be only percieved as zero in a practical world.
? said it before and i will say it again:
the question is NOT valid. it assumes there is a contact area and asks how big it is. there is NO contact area. You can think that if there is no contact area there is no force to keep the ball on top of the plane (if gravity is aplied) so it falls through it etc. etc. etc. but again... the question is not inside the physics domain.
you may try for days to wrap your head around this and you would fail because you are asking the wrong questions. quit trying to find out how this is possible and think is it is possible at all
@John Farrier ...
That does not exist. what you describe as hot is the measurement of temperature and therefore the thermic energy of an object. There is no such limit. If you keep giving thermic energy to an object it will heat up as long as you keep heating it up.
Absolute zero is the absence of energy not the temperature all motion stops. It is as immaginary as the contact area given in the question above
The contact in the question is a "point" which is described as (quoting from wikipedia)In geometry, points are zero-dimensional; i.e., they do not have volume, area, length, or any other higher-dimensional analogue.
the answer is: contact area is ZERO. end of story
If you insist on trying to calculate the forces or the pressure created by the sphere etc. you are welcome to try. Points are immaginary. physics does not deal with immanginary. non such calculation can be made. you cant calculate the friction or pressure (for example) because they would require dividing a number to zero. answers are not "infinite" or "nill" they are impossible.
does this answer your question "John Farrier" ?