The Death of Manners

Are we becoming more rude? Lisa Gache, co-founder of Beverly Hills Manners in Los Angeles, thinks so. She noticed that courteous language is slowly going away, and blames society's modern, casual style:

"The slow erosion of the 'magic words' in our everyday vernacular," says Gache, who coaches people to be more civil, "has to do with the predilection toward all things casual in our society today. Casual conversation, casual dress and casual behavior have hijacked practically all areas of life, and I do not think it is doing anyone a service."

Other polite phrases also seem to be falling by the wayside. "You're welcome," for instance. Say "thank you" to someone these days, and instead of hearing "you're welcome," you're more liable to hear: "Sure." "No problem." "You bet." "Enjoy." Or a long list of replies that replace the traditional "you're welcome."

Instead of saying "thank you," people say "got it." Or "have a good one." Or, more often, nothing at all. And in lieu of saying "no, thank you," reactions such as "I'm good" are increasingly common.

"The responses 'have a good one,' 'I'm good' or 'you bet,' do not carry the same sentiment or convey the same conviction as when we are sincerely expressing our gratitude or thanks," Gache says. "They feel less invested, almost as if they are painful to utter under our breath."

So, the question is: can you still have good manners without saying "please," "thank you" and "you're welcome"? I'd appreciate it if you could answer the question, please. Thank you!

Link - via Fark


I don't under stand why the saying "no problem" is considered rude. They say de nada in Spanish, which translates to roughly the same thing. It does bother me that when I say thank you to a customer in my store, they say thank you back. I don't find it rude, just odd.
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Nobody has mentioned the alternative to "you're welcome" that I use a lot: "My pleasure," which is short for "It was my pleasure to serve you." Maybe it's a southern thing. I use that about half the time, and "you're welcome" about half.

"No problem" is just weird, but since the intent is politeness, I'll take it as it is meant.
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I'm guilty of the "no problem" response, but I don't see it as a problem. Like TyW I see it as being an alternative way of saying "you're welcome". I do feel it's a little rude to just respond with the unintelligible grunt, or no response whatsoever.

As a child I was always taught to say please & thank you and even when I went through my rebellious stage as a teen, it was so ingrained that they slipped into pretty much every request. I think I was the most polite yobbo my little town had ever seen.
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I do not believe you can have good manners without use of the appropriate language. A gesture done in assistance or to please should be acknowledged with a kind and appreciate response. Why? Because the action shows thoughtfulness. Children are not being taught manners but are instead subjected to extensive examples of sarcasm and outright meanness in movies and television. It's very sad and doesn't bode well for future generations of Americans who are already considered rude by folks around the globe. Thank you for writing about this topic and providing a forum for discussion.

P.S. I will use "no worries" when someone apologizes to me, for example, if they bump into me and I am unhurt. I did once call a man a lummox when he stepped on the heel of my orthodic slipper I was wearing after bunion surgery.
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Please and thank you going by the wayside is only the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately I find that more and more people find that foul language is appropriate. I have my theories that this is rooted in the whole "self-esteem" movement that placed a child's emotions as more paramount than being a good citizen.
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"No problem" to me means:
- It didn't cause me any difficulty, I was happy to help.
- No need to thank me, as it didn't put me out of my way.
- You are welcome.

I fail to see how this is rude.

Regarding the store clerk not saying 'Thank you': It's okay to be the one thanking them. They helped you with your groceries and their store allowed you a convenient place to get them. I'm very thankful that I have such a large selection, decent prices, and friendly people at my grocery store. I wish everyone had that. Thus, I will continue to thank my store clerk, and never have expectations that they have to do the same.
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I am very guilty of the 'no problem(or worries)/uh huh/sure/anytime' type of responses. My favorite is when someone says "Thank you very much", I like to reply with "You're welcome just as much".
Also the automatic replys you get are funny when someone asks "Whats up" and you/i reply 'Good thanks'.

They say that communication is only 10%(?) verbal and the rest is non-verbal. You can say the words and not mean them or you can not say them but the feeling is there.
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I moved to the Midwest from Canada a few years ago and the first thing I noticed was that people weren't saying "You're welcome" after I said "Thank you." Instead they would say "Uh huh" or some grunting variation of that. It kind of irks me but now I notice when the few do make an effort to say "You're welcome."

On the flip side, my in-laws think I speak too formally. I never expected that.
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Saying 'please' is so much a part of me that if I've picked up a single item and want to pay for it, rather than just handing it over and saying nothing I say "Just that, please", purely so that I can get the word 'please' out of my mouth!

However I don't do that if I have more than a few items at the supermarket, and I don't have any good reason for that. Perhaps it's because with a big basket of shopping other things are usually said, such as 'would you like any help your packing?' Maybe the 'just that, please' is my way of filling an awkward silence.

Saying 'you're welcome' is not at all commonplace in Britain - on the rare occasion that people have responded to my 'thank you' with 'you're welcome' it seemed out of place, and I certainly never expect to hear it. 'No problem' or 'that's okay' are far more common, and they don't sound casual to my ear, just polite.

Although our countries do have significant differences, one thing remains constant: 'please' and 'thank you' are never optional. I don't think you can over-use either of them.

PS I'm, pretty sure that responding to 'you're welcome' with 'I know I am' isn't the right thing to say!
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ohhh just how much trouble i was in if i didn't say "please" or "thank you" as a kid! and now i ALWAYS say it. also, i say both "you're welcome" and "no problem". if i give something to someone, and they thank me, i say "you're welcome"... if i do something for someone, and they thank me, i say humbly "not a problem"...

also i never expect, or feel entitled to receive a "thank you" from anybody for anything. i think it defeats the purpose of doing something nice, and is always a nice little thing when someone does thank you. weird, eh? kind of like, if i give a present, i absoutely don't expect nor want anything in return.

kindness feels so good...
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I agree that the "thank you" changes above are not equivalents. I have not personally heard them ever, though.

I always say "no problem" or "no worries" or "my pleasure" instead of "you're welcome". "You're welcome" seems to have a hint of "yes, I did you a favour but that's okay". The more modern substitutes more fully indicate that the person did not need to be grateful. And since the point of manners is to make others feel good, why not?
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I'm guilty of saying "no problem". Two observations about it though: it's less likely to be a conversation flow blockage like I've found you're welcome to be and I'm more apt to say it after speaking French or Spanish in a recent conversation. With the latter, one is pretty much saying no problem, literally it's nothing. Either way, I've never had a complaint.
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It's always funny to me when people yak about this or that custom going the way of buggy whips (which, by the way are common around here in Amish country). A person from the 18th century would be aghast...but then they would have been aghast 10 years ago, 20, 30...really pretty much any time after their own. Clinging to outmoded forms of address and politesse is the mark of a rigid mind.
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I'd be more inclined to say that language reflects changes in our cultural attitudes rather than causes those changes. Manners probably cannot be preserved by promoting the utterance of empty 'pleases' and 'thank yous'. We don't feel as dependent on each other as we used to, and so have no reason to communicate a recognition of the other's service or value.
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@Melissa the Psyc Nerd: Well, I agree but to a point. Like John Farrier, my wife and I are teaching our young children how to be polite. The usage of "please" and "thank you" is central to this effort - so although society's changes are reflected in its language, it is also through language that we propagate society's norms.
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What Jill said. It's more important to express the sentiment than use traditional phrasing. I agree with this portion of the article:

She describes a typically routine encounter: "At the grocery store cafe down the street, I go get a coffee every morning," Lacey says. "This morning I walked in and they said, 'Good morning, will you have the usual?' I smiled and said, 'Yes, please.' They asked me how my morning had been while making my coffee. On the way out the door they said, 'Enjoy. See you tomorrow.' "

She doesn't expect people to utter the same old same olds.
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If someone has name tag I do my best to ask them by name how they are doing. More than likely I get a friendly response and a bit of friendly chatter. I'm off work so I try and make someones workday that much better.
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Being from the ever polite Canada, where "Please", "Thank you", "You're welcome", and "I'm sorry" abound, I'm always a little taken aback when someone says "Yep" in response to a "Thank you".

I don't find it rude, exactly, I just don't understand it. Are they agreeing with me? As in, "Yep, you DO thank me, as you should." Or something else? It's just confusing.
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@Biffo> you are awesome.

In reply to the orginal post.

Society changes, this really sounds like an old person complaining about "Kids these days."

Casual =/= rude.

it just equals different.
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whether it's waitstaff, bagger, or the guy that hauls the water softener salt to my truck, I say "thank you" to them. It's common decency to thank someone that is doing something for you. I don't care if they are getting paid, I've had those jobs, and a little appreciation goes a long way.
I'm now a teacher, and I encourage "please" and "thank you".
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The thing that drives me crazy is when I check out at the grocery store, department store, or almost anywhere, I'M the one who says "thank you" as the cashier hands me my change or my receipt. Shouldn't THEY be thanking me for shopping there? One of my pet peeves. I wholeheartedly agree with Ms. Gache when she says, "Casual conversation, casual dress and casual behavior have hijacked practically all areas of life."
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Language and culture evolve over time. People like this just want to label all forms of change as bad.
Sure it's more polite for people to refer to me as "Miss Harness," but it's certainly a lot more comfortable to hear "Jill."
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I don't know. I'm either not paying attention, jaded, or I've just never found people to be more rude in general nowadays compared to earlier in my life, regardless of the places I've lived in. I find it nice that people would respond at all. In fact, I like it when people say "no problem." Most of the time they say it with a smile, anyway, which is always nice.

And what's wrong with hearing "have a good one" or "you bet"? Maybe it's a local/cultural thing? Maybe we're just looking for alternate ways to say please and thank you as to not sound redundant, or even old-fashioned.

I'm just glad at all that we still smile and generally won't let kind gestures go unacknowledged.
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I usually don't respond; I'm more of a lurker. But you asked so nicely...

I ALWAYS say please and thank you, but I'm definitely guilty of the "no problem" or the "don't mention it"
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"No problem" is the one that throws me.

I might be in a grocery store, and an employee is bagging my groceries at the register.

"Thank you!" I say.

"No problem." is the reply.

Er... since you're here to bag my groceries, I sort of took it as a given that it was "no problem."
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