Should Bert and Ernie Get Married?

I'm all about the gays getting married, but this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I sympathize with the plight of the homosexual/lesbian condition, but Bert and Ernie being just best buds is just as vital of a role model for kids in this no-holds-barred freedom of information age.

I would suggest they lobby to introduce new characters instead of sacrificing the (in my opinion) long-standing friendship with its ups and downs.

@gailpink, why? it's not like it's an official wedding or anything. it'd be nice to have the media get behind teaching kids tolerance and acceptance.

No, they shouldn't. I'm all in favor of legalizing and promoting gay marriage, but promoting it on Sesame Street would only result in the children of intolerant parents no longer being allowed to watch it. The risk of alienating a large portion of the Sesame Street audience and inserting the show into the middle of a national controversy would do more harm to the show than any benefit I can see.

I don't think Bert is gay.

@bekka, sure we can't teach kids about tolerance of gays, but using beloved characters who were never appointed as gay or straight is stupid. Create new characters to do this, don't use Bert and Ernie just because of their notoriety.

I think this is a dumb idea. I have no problem with gay marriage, but this idea seems to suggest that if 2 males live together they must be gay. Plus this is a show geared towards young children that aren't really old enough to be introduced to sexual education.

There should be a new law of the Internet: Any online petition, no matter how obscure or idiotic, will garner at least a few hundred signatures if circulated to the right people.

PS. Anyone up for starting a petition to remove Elmo, Baby Bear and Abby Cadabra from the show? I'm sure at least a few hundred people would agree. :^)

NO. the last thing 4 year olds need is more sex-oriented garbage shoved down their throat. They are kids... stop worrying them with stupid adult nonsense!

I always thought they were just friends. :/

I always thought Burt and Ernie were brothers...like bachelor-brother-roommates.

"They are not gay, they are not straight, they are puppets," says Sesame Workshop President and CEO Gary Knell. "They don't exist below the waist."

That is that needs to be said.

In what world is teaching tolerance indoctrination? (from the article)

The fact alone that this creates so much controversy is very indicative of how in-tolerant we still are.

@ Dallas: You create more problems by overprotecting children. You think kids can't handle a gay couple? Please.

Nearly the entire audience of this show is very young children in a heterosexual family (you know, because of the logistics involved). I have nothing against same-sex marriage at all, but why effectively bring it up and create confusion and awkward conversations before a child has formed the emotional maturity needed to really understand this level of relationship? Just seems unnecessary to me I guess, because it's not going to really get the point you want across if it can't be understood.

Like the rest of us have, they can just use their imaginations on that relationship when they get older. ;)

This is too mature and complex of a topic for a small child to understand. How about something more simple and speaking more directly to the understanding level of the audience. Let's teach both to learn acceptance of others as well as to be confident in one's self (many gay men say they knew since they were very young) by doing something more like: Child puppet says "I feel different sometimes. I'm not like everybody else." and a friend or parent tells them it's okay to be different. Different is good, it's what makes us all unique, and it's important to like others for their differences too.

Done and done.

Sesame Street nerd checking in... Change.org's heart is in the right place, but their approach is pretty silly. Most of the Sesame Street muppet characters are written to represent different stages of childhood development - for example, Big Bird, Elmo, and Grover have the emotional/intellectual development of children six, three, and four years old, respectively. Ernie and Bert might not be as kiddish as some of the other Muppets, but they aren't really written as adults, either. It just doesn't make sense to marry off non-adult characters, whether gay or straight or flesh or felt.

That said, I think it's high time a gay human couple moved to Sesame Street. The show has explored adult family relationships through the human characters many times. If they could pair up Maria and David in the 70s, then they can give Laundromat Leela a girlfriend in the 10s.

Why can't Bert and Ernie just show that two people can be best friends? Why does sex have to be included in everything? People are twisted when they have to ruin something as pure as friendship.

Teach kids that having friends is good and that they do not need to have sex with a person in order to be their best friend.

How about a petition to remove this post from Neatorama?

why should we force children into the concept that 2 people who lives together have to be married, further, why should it be pushed that 2 men who live together are assumed to be gay. neither of these should be pushed on children

I don't think this is a problem. I don't know why people are freaking out, what are the parents going to do when their child sees a gay couple in the real world, cover their eyes? Grow up, it's 2011 people. New things will happen. :)

I'm pretty sure Bert and Ernie aren't real.

If Sesame Street wants to create a same-sex couple then I'll support it whole-heartedly. We're friends with a few same-sex couples and their kids are awesome and close friends with our kid. Kids of same-sex couples should feel comfortable with their families and their classmates should be tolerant.

But Bert and Ernie have never given any indication of romantic love. There's nothing wrong with being friends and roommates and NOT gay. A child should also be taught that it's okay to love someone as a friend without it being a question of sexuality.

I always assumed that Bert and Ernie lived together because they were dirt poor and couldn't afford a two bedroom apartment. They don't even own a change of clothes and Ernie's idea of indulgence is taking a bath in an outdated clawfoot tub.

And then where do you go from there? Marital issues? Come on...it's about friendship...that's what Sesame Street is about. As soon as you change their relationship you have to change the dynamics and little children don't get that, don't need that. Leave it as it is. Why fix what's working?

Note that Bert and Ernie sleep in separate beds. And do you think there would really be a gay couple on Sesame Street? The topic of sex isn't touched on at all on that show, let alone gay sex. Gay marriage is totally cool with me, but trying to make characters from a children's show gay to push your agenda is just stupid.

Oh, also, @playtrombone64, I want to sign your petition. And @Vonskippy, good point, they're puppets not people. They're not real.

What ever happened to just friendship. Bert and Ermie getting married seems to me to sexualize their platonic relationship, and I would be against it if it were Bert and Mellisa.....why not teach kid that ita ok to be just friends, and you dont have to push it any farthwr than that.

All right. Enough of the "sexualizing" bit. The problem with heterosexual society when it comes to gays is that you can't see past waist-level. Can you not look at two gay people without tryinig to imagine which one is the bottom?

I don't agree with Bert and Ernie getting married any more than I agree with Statler and Waldorf getting married, or Dumbledore supposedly being gay (funny, no mention of THAT in the recent movie).

The world of Sesame Street is a world of kids, and not of pre-teens, teens, or adults. As such, it should not have adult issues or adult scenarios between its muppet characters.

However, the human characters on the show could have a gay couple, and I doubt it would traumatize the audience. They needn't be Butch and Lance, who run the leather bar up the street, just two people on the show. It doesn't sexualize the relationship just because they exist on the street.

I don't think they need any sort of more complex relationships than just friends on the show, between humans or muppets. That's like Kermit and Miss Piggy finally getting married, or Gilligan and the gang getting off the island.

And finally, they're MUPPETS, NOT PUPPETS!

No.

Bert is not gay. Ernie, idk.

Once again sexual degenerates try to corrupt the minds of our children by introducing them to concepts they're not mature enough to process. Political correctness embodied through Jim Henson's legacy and force fed through publicly funded media? No, thanks.

I read the article and the peition, and... really... doesn't anyone ELSE have the distinct feeling that this entire thing is really just a joke?

Anyway, I watched *Plaza Sesame*, and as I understood it, Bert and Ernie were really, really looking forward to going to bed together. But I haven't really got my Spanish back up to speed yet. :)

I truly believe there should be more same sex couples on TV from kid shows to adult shows and not stereo type them either. Do I think Bert and Ernie should get married, NO for the sole reason that this is not who they are they have been room mates for years and I as a kid never actually seen them as adults just puppets. I do agree to bring some real people on the show that are in a same sex relationship or do a wedding of a same sex couple later on. To say it will confuse kids is wrong and its the whole problem. I read so many posts that said Oh I am all for same sex marraige but I dont want my kids watching it" Seriously that is so hypocritical and the whole problem with society. Its normal and nothing wrong with it its people that make it wrong. None of the puppets are married they are a just single puppets, but bring in a puppet that maybe falls in love with bert or ernie (which i see as a kid so bert would be a better choice) do it like Miss piggy and kermit. Kids are not stupid and should not be sheltered and in the end what are you sheltering them from no wonder so many gay people were scared to come out of the closet. People should be ashamed of themselves, they should show a gay person getting bullied and how wrong it is so that they dont grow up thinking its ok because adults thought it was wrong and hide it from them till they thought they were old enough.

@ChuckD, people like you are the ones that are karupting childrens minds with the crap you are spreading. People like you are the problem with society and should not be teaching children anything because there is nothing right about teaching a child hate towards anyone!

HELL NO!!! Leave those kids alone! Have you agendas and whatever, but leave the kids out of it! Let me ask you this: How did you get here? The consummate love of a man and a woman, just like God ordained it, right? And if you are gay and you want kids, how do you get them, from heterosexuals who give them up for adoption, or some other means of the same result. LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE!!! Let them grow up normal and choose, like you did!

Keep the sexual content the hell out of Sesame Street!

This is the problem with gays and lesbians and such. It's not that they want to be left alone to live in peace...I wholly support that.

It's that they are not satisfied to be left alone to live in peace. They want to force everyone else to place their stamps of approval on their lifestyle.

Being left alone to live as you please with other adults that like your lifestyle choices should be everyone's right (I'll fight for that). But, forcing everyone to place their stamp of approval on your lifestyle choice is NOBODY'S right.

Need an example, do ya? Gay pride parades. Since when did being left alone to live your life as you please dictate a parade?

Not that I don't love a good ol' gay parade, but when breeders talk about having a Heterosexual Pride parade they are called homophobic (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2011/0804/Heterosexual-Pride-Day-in-Sao-Paulo).

You can't expect tolerance if you are unwillling to give it.

And you should know when to draw the line at introducing adult subject matter to children (whether that subject matter be gay, straight or some weird sh!t I have yet to hear about).

Ah, it's nice to see the haters come out of their closet on this one now.

So much more refreshing than the polite "I'm all for it, but not in front of the children" hater comments. These people have a genuine bigotry, and they don't mind showing it off.

As for Heterosexual Pride Day, that's every day. To suggest a parade for it is not sincere, and is a demonstration of hatred. Since when can a gay couple show the same level of affection in public that a straight couple can without fear of being physically threatened? Not in a lot of places.

Children of Sesame Street age are inundated with heterosexual couples all the time. It's Cinderella's goal to get married to Prince Charming. I don't hear you complaining about the sexual element in that story, or the sexual element in any children's story where a boy and a girl meet and fall in love.

But if a boy and a boy meet and fall in love, it's all about how degenerate and perverted they are.

Like I said, Sesame Street isn't the place for complex relationships, but screening your kids from the realities of life just turns them into arrogant bullies and haters like some of the previous commenters.

I dunno why people are losing their minds saying it has to be so sexual. Gay couples can be as non sexually portrayed as heterosexual ones. Maybe Bert and Ernie shouldn't get married, I dunno... but as far as teaching acceptance of gay couples as much as anything else, I don't see why not.

Being a massive LGBT-rights supporter, and not having seen a single episode of Sesame Street, I think this is ridiculous.

Leave the puppets alone...geez.

Do you think the Olympic committee will ever allow same sex pairs figure skating?

It is a parents personal decision on how they want to raise their child. I for one will NOT teach my child to hate gays, ridicule them, or any derogatory or negative actions. I would not want Sesame Street to be a force against gay marriage. Nor should it be a force for gay marriage. It is not up to society to teach my child what is acceptable and what is not. It is MY job. I strongly disagree with the concept of gay marriage being discussed in a childrens show. Yes my son will se a gay couple out in public. And yes, he will ask questions, and yes I will teach him that is their choice. Let the show continue to teach children the basics of childhood: sharing, friendship, caring, and confidence. Let the parents decide when it is appropriate to discuss mature matters such as these. Personally, I disagree with gay marriage. But, my son is his own person. When he is an adult, I will teach him to have the personal freedom to make his own decision. Society, please remember, this is a childs show. They are being bombarded with sex, drugs, and violence everywhere. At least keep an iconic show like Sesame Street clear of the harsher aspects or more controversial topics of life. Let our kids just be kids.

I'm not sure that Bert & Ernie are adults. I know that raises the question of why they're living on their own, but it's a show for preschoolers and not everything has to be neat and logical: it's just fun. I'm also not sure if they're even supposed to be human! As someone else said, they're puppets.

If they are trying to teach tolerance of those that are different then they should also make Bigbird a serial killer.

oF ALL THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE FACING US IN aMERICA, i THINK THAT LETTING A COUPLE OF CARTOON CHARACTERS GET MARRIED IS THE MOST REDICULOUS THING I'VE EVER HEARD.jUST LET THEM BE FRIENDS LIKE THEY HAVE ALWAYS
BEEN INSTEAD OF THEM GETTING MARRIED. iN GOD i BELIEVE AND BELIEVE IN AND ALWAYS WILL, IN THE SAYING OF THE MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE , "IN GOD WE TRUST"

I wish these rediculous groups would shut up. You don't speak for the rest of us (gay people). They're friends. Let them stay that way. I'm glad no one try to force me to marry my best friends. I like seeing this intiment, non sexual friendship between two boys. It teaches men (gay or straight) how to have close friends. And to everyone else the real gay agenda is to be normal (if anyone can figure out what that means. For me it means to serve God and mankind to the best of my ability. And lastly, I don't want t see big bird and snuffy get married either.

what a joke.. sell out are kids and now the kids shows.

NO!

They're fucking puppets! Who the fuck cares! It's not going to change anything. Kids who are being raised by parents who are ok with it won't see the big deal, and kids who are being raised by parents who think it's wrong won't get to watch Sesame Street anymore.

Leading impressionable children to believe that it is OK for two male or female characters to wed is morally and Biblically WRONG, whether its cartoon characters or not. You do not want the responsibility of teaching children that is ok to be gay or lesbian. The writers and directors of AETN and all who are involved will not want that on their conscience when one day they neal before God and are accountable for what they have done. Teach children that only the marriage between a man and a woman is Biblically right. If you proceed with the marriage between these two characters, my family will no longer purchase anything that is associated with AETN and will no longer recieve monetary support. God Bless you and I truly hope that you make the RIGHT decision.

What is wrong with you people??? Where are your morals??? Only one other post on here has been directed to the Biblical aspect of this. Why are we so concerned with letting children believe that its OK to accept gay marriage? We need to teach our kids that God meant for man to be with woman. Anybody remember the Garden of Eden??? And even though Bert and Ernie are just characters, if they marry then that is telling our children that its ok to accept that when clearly its against the Bible. I have family members that are gay and I love them dearly but that doesnt mean I have to agree with their lifestyle choice. TO THE PRODUCERS OF AETN: I HOPE YOU READ THIS AND KNOW HOW VERY IMPORTANT IT IS TO MAKE SURE WE DONT MISGUIDE OUR CHILDREN!!!

Please no, listen theres nothing wrong with being gay, but please not bert and ernie, so u saying when to best friends live together they are gay, come on this wont teach children tolerance, im sorry but this is really pushing your beliefs, ahhhh no not bert and ernie ohh god noooo!!!

We need to teach our kids to accept everybody and open them up to equality as early as possible. No matter people's beliefs, if everyone treated everyone with respect maybe this world would be a better place! I hope Bert and Ernie get married.

The comments on here show why this group decided to create the survey in the firat place - to promote dialogue, not to seriously try and marry off two muppets.

It's like the old racist comment, "I have nothing against the blacks, but I wouldn't let my daughter marry one."

And who in this day and age cares if it's "Biblically incorrect"? I'd rather "kneel" before my Maker and show that I taught my children patience and tolerance, and to treat other human beings with decency and respect, than "kneel" before my Maker as a self-righteous, blind bigot, who refused to see people for the decent, loving human beings that they were, and who tried to bully companies who didn't agree with my narrow mind set.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-14504208

Well speaking that I am a lesbian and very active in the gay community, I have come to the conclusion that it isn't okay to do a thing as such. Kids should be as what they are..Kids and these topics shouldn't even be introduced to them if they are still watching sesame street. I as a former viewer always thought they were brothers since as when i as growing up i had to share a bed with my sister so it never came to me that they could've been something else....No would be my vote in this subject.

Leaving the individual morals and opinions aside for a moment...the scientific community has weighed in on the non-traditional VS traditional family subject (although not intentionally I am sure, as the Scientific American Mind article "Maternal Mentality" is primarily about how having a baby changes the minds of its parents).

In Scientific American Mind (July/August 2011), page 36, the section titled "A Critical Link" explores the relationship of offspring Degu rats to their parents.

It reads in part "At a stage of development when most of the brain should be burgeoning with new connections, the pups raised without a father had deficits in the orbitofrontal cortex and the somatosensory cortex. The orbitofrontal cortex is part of the prefrontal cortex, which regulates decision making, reward and emotion. And although it is difficult to extrapolate from rodent studies to effects in humans, it is worth noting that faulty synapses and processing problems in this locale might well explain why we see some kids who grow up without a dad wrestle with occasionally serious behavioral problems."

I know that I have seen more developmental and behavioral problems in children and adults who grew up without a caring father (whether the father was absent or present but uncaring) than in those that grew up with a caring father.

This would seem to indicate that children who grow up without a caring father (whether that be in a lesbian home, an orphanage, a broken heterosexual home or a home where the father has died and the mother did not remarry or some other situation) would be at greater risk of future emotional and behavioral problems.

It seems that the presence of a father figure is vital to proper brain development.

I would assume (as I have not looked for any scientific studies to back this up) that the same goes for rats (and children) raised without caring mothers.

Having watched children raised in an environment where their mother cared more about her own needs and wants than theirs (even telling the children that they were not going to get in the way of her living her life the way she wanted) I can state from my observations that (at least in this instance) children raised without a caring mother are just as negatively affected as those raised without a caring father.

As a matter of full disclosure...the article goes on to contradict itself by saying ""Having two parents is one thing," Wiess points out, "but having effective relationships between parents and offspring is yet something else. It's actually the effectiveness of the relationships [that matters]"."

This statement was not backed up by the previously mentioned Degu rat study, and is contradictory to the information gained from the Degu study.

It would seem, from the evidence that we have, that for children to develop properly, and to their fullest potential, there exists a need for both a caring mother and a caring father.

So, while I do not begrudge anyone their right to marry a same sex partner, all indications are that children raised in such homes are at a distinct disadvantage.

squishyalt, are you sure you're not Ryan S in disguise?

You're quoting scientific studies at length, to discuss a point that's not even germane to the topic.

The topic is not about homosexuals raising kids, but teaching all kids to be tolerant of all types of people, considering that Bert and Ernie have long been considered by some groups as very similar to a homosexual couple.

to top it off, your conclusions are backed up not by the article you quote, but by your own biased (i.e., non-scientific) observations.

Well done. I'm glad you were able to resolve that issue for us. All children should be raised by heterosexual, caring parents. Any widows or divorcees should remarry immediately. Single mothers should immediately marry. And make sure that your hubby is caring. We don't want to mess with that brain development.

Bert, Ernie, put down that turkey baster - no children for you!

ted,

This is most certainly germane to the topic at hand. The topic is whether Bert and Ernie should get married.

Along with teaching tolerance of others (which I wholeheartedly support), for those of Seasame Street age and mental/emotional development, this also teaches acceptance of the lifestyle - a lifestyle which is not the ideal for raising children (something a lot of non-traditional families are trying to do).

As it is not possible at this young age for children to differentiate between tolerance for alternative lifestyles and acceptance of that lifestyle as an equal alternative to traditional families - and as children are not really ready to discuss things like this scientific study at the Seasame Street age - I believe it best if the alternative lifestyle indoctrination is left to things like Glee, where children are more able to differentiate between tolerance and lifestyle acceptance and are more able to understand things like this study and others (like the CDCC study that recently showed ALL sexually active groups declining in HIV/AIDS transmission EXCEPT homosexual males).

It is irresponsible to expose children this young to subjects that they cannot fully discuss or understand.

To be fair, I doubt they're actually gay. No gay man would have a unibrow like Bert's. Just sayin.

Its just a very serious bromance.

They's PUPPETS, for God's sake. Global warming, economy in the crapper, starvation, prickly heat, Brain eating Amoeba, the Neanderthalic GOP Presidential candidates and YOU spend all this time on THIS topic?

I think everyone has forgotten that Bert and Ernie are not adults. They are supposed to be six years old. That's why they collect bottle caps, and share cookies. I don't think there is any onus on Seasame Street to teach our kids about the tolerance and complexities of homosexuality. Leave that for older age shows. If its important for a parent to have thier children be aware, then teach them yourself, and stop pushing others to do your work.