After PINK magazine editor Cynthia Good complained that its "Men at Work" and "Men Working" signs are sexist, the city of Atlanta is going to change them - at a tune of $1,000 - to "Workers Ahead."
The project, which involves painting over the existing 50 "Men at Work" and "Men Working" signs with those that say simply "Workers Ahead" or "Workers," will cost a total of $1,000, Atlanta Public Works Commissioner Joe Basista told FOXNews.com.
About half of the city's 100 Public Works employees are women, said Basista, so he complied with PINK magazine editor Cynthia Good's request to stop warning passersby of men at work when women were right there alongside them.
Now, she's going national:
"We're calling on the rest of the nation to follow suit and make a statement that we will not accept these subtle forms of discrimination," she told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
A sensible correction or political correctness gone mad? What do you think? Link - Thanks Chris Ayres!
I remember reading about a court case where a woman was acquitted because text of the law in question used male pronouns.
A: A woman that won't shut up or do as she's told.
I suppose Ill start seeing about 100% more women out digging holes and patching roads vs taking my money when I visit the office to pay my bills or answering the phone.
I was blown away when I heard this story on the local news station. What else are we going to make gender neutral because of a couple of people who have nothing better to do than to cause problems?
"subtle forms of discrimination"... back when these signs were printed, probably only about 2% of workers were even women.. Thats not discrimination, thats just proper description. Do any of the women who work on the roads complain about it? I'd like to hear their thoughts.
Actually, the street where I live has just recently been recapped, and it was actually the first time I took notice of how all 15 workers or so were men. Some quite young, some in the verge of retirement. But all men. And only then I realized I had never seen a woman doing that kind of job.
I'm not saying that women are not capable of doing stuff like that, and I concede that it's possible that they aren't out there doing heavy work on the streets exactly because of sexism ("this is a man's job" - like in the army, the coal mines, etc). But
With that said, a "workers ahead" sign is just as accurate and informative, and might also signal the path to a more egalitarian society in the future. So I'm not opposed to this specific request, as it makes sense.
However, there's no doubt that this request was rooted in acute political correctness gone overboard, what with the bitchiness of the "we will not accept these subtle forms of discrimination" statement (when it's actually more of a cultural staple and relics of a different era) and the immediate lawsuit.
There are nicer ways to go about it and raise awareness without being an asshole and shoving your point down everyone's throats.
And that's the kind of motivation and attitude that we have to watch out for.
ha! now we're talking about some serious sexism. Or or, what about ladies night at bars? I guess those have to go too.
ok Ill share my horrible sexist joke now
- How many women does it take to wallpaper a room?
~ Just one if you slice her thin enough
Yeah, because sexist ladies' nights at clubs meant to draw in women so they can be ogled at by any given bar's unbalanced male population is *totally* a feminist scene.
I knew I shouldn't have clicked on the comments for this one.
And just so you know, some feminists are pushing for selective service registration, but I'm personally against that as long as *women are still restricted in how they can serve in the military*!
I don't think it's time for Selective Service until women are actual of equal status and can serve on front lines.
You owe me a new keyboard, this one is now soaked. :P
Also, notice how these things don't make news until someone complains about how PC it is..which means it's when the government wakes up and realizes that moving progressively should have happened a while ago before they were screamed at by gender-neutral enthusiasts. Of course it would be great if all this happened subtly without the need for grandiose campaigns but guess what, we still have a long way to go obviously so stop complaining about the protesters and start complaining why people still need to protest.
I would like to her the women of neatorama's views on this.
Ive never seen a woman working out there, now that I think about it.
1) That anybody would take offense at this
2) That Atlanta didn't anticipate this years ago and switch the signs the cheap and easy way, as most places have done. (Washington State, for example, has been "Construction Ahead" as long as I can remember. But then again, we're not in the South.)
Sounds like a plan to me!
Guys we gotta pick our battles. Let the feminists have their stupid gender neutral signs.
I'm embarrassed to be a woman with women like those defining our issues.
Try looking up "man (word)" on wikepedia, sweetie.
Yes, I'm sure they were planning on using the $1000 from the Atlanta Public Works budget to solve world hunger.
All the signs here just say "Construction ahead" or "SLOW Construction Zone". But yeah, if HALF the people working there are women (like it says in the article), they should probably go gender neutral.
As far as the jobs go, this is a door that swings both ways. There was a hue and cry a couple of years ago about how the majority of college students are now women. People wondered if there was some discrimination toward men in admissions. When they looked at the situation up close, it turns out that men are less likely to go to college because they can get a decent-paying job without a degree. It's still hard for a woman to get someone to teach her how to run a backhoe. I told my daughters if they ever get the opportunity, go for it.
This is exactly what I want in tax funded organizations (especially during an economic downturn). But instead they spend $1000 to update the 50 existing signs, and an additional $144 per new sign ordered. I'm not saying they need to fix the world's ills with it. Just fix a pothole or two.
Also, wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to buy 50 of the old signs and repaint them, than to order the new ones at $144 extra?
these kinds of things are literally such a waste of time and money...
i'm not a sensitive feminist and i think this is an overreaction. being politically correct anymore is taboo and now that women DO have equal rights to men they're taking every opportunity to nit-pick at the "men" terms that still exist. and they exist not because the system is still sexist, but because it is IMPOSSIBLE to change absolutely every single sign, poster, book, policy, sticker, and proper name to accomodate all the feminists' social needs. this chick could have EASILY mentioned that "hey! times have changed and these signs need to as well." but also, as someone else mentioned above, that "man" is short for "mankind" and is a universal term for all human beings. when you say "man-power" it doesn't imply that the only people participating are men. it implies that HUMANS are participating. if we want to be COMPLETELY policitally correct, we would say "human power." or "humans at work."
i hate feminists. they overreact about everything having to do with gender equality and are severely harming their own cause. they think that women deserve BETTER treatment than men because we've been oppressed for the last how many years and we have to "make up" for lost time by overcompensating. hence all those dumb-husband commercials-- you know the ones. i can't STAND them. women are not superior to men, and vise-versa. they each have elements that contribute to healthy diversification because yes, we're different from each other. but think of our differences like puzzle pieces. we all have our own specializations and niches, and when placed alongside complementary pieces, we fit together quite nicely to form a pretty picture.
i'm female. i can't stand feminists.
It would have to say something like,
"Guys working while a cop gets paid overtime just to watch and some state senator's wife gets paid $40 an hour to hold the slow/stop sign."
Does she have NOTHING better to protest?!
Damn nut job.
Also, maybe this woman should be fighting to be a part of the selective service enrollment – oh wait, feminists only care about things that will BENEFIT THEMSELVES. (even if it's just adding to their smug level)
I'm all for treating women equally, but this woman is an idiot.
O.K. They have a point. But, it seems that someone has far to much time to fritter on this rather than making a ground breaking change for humanity.
Bah on the Victorian bullshit in American society.
But instead of recognizing this as a simple adjustment, people are coming out of the woodwork to insult "feminazis" and generally get their primitive, ignorant knee-jerk reactions on. Nice work. Oh and also, the female commenters are rushing to support the opinions of their idiot colleagues, lest they seem weak, lest they appear to actually care about their own gender and issues around equality. The horror!
Pathetic.
And to people saying she should do something about all the misfortune in the world... WHAT HAVE YOU DONE???
To complain about this rather than the real issues that affect women on a daily basis that need change is ignorance, complaining just to be controversial, and makes all women look bad.
As for "supporting idiot colleagues", that's a statement that could easily be taken as man hating. Not all men are chauvinistic, just as not all feminists are harpies.
It hurts you not at all if people want these signs changed. If this were a post about some other tiny expenditure in public works, you would not have commented. So I find it telling that the fact that somebody wants outdated signage changed compels you and others to get up in arms.
And I didn't say all men are chauvinistic; I said that the people crying foul over somebody wanting a piddly sign changed are idiots, and the fact that the issue has a gender component is obviously the operative factor in their overblown responses. To pretend otherwise is a joke.
And as for language not changing reality, well, that's wrong on about a thousand levels.
My main point, though, is that the almost violent reaction people have to other people's sensitivities is absurd. If someone feels offended by something, why does that offend you? It's common sense to say "Well, I may not be personally offended by such-and-such issue, but if it bothers somebody else, who am I to say their feelings are wrong?" Instead of taking that tack, people start flipping out and attacking.
I guess it's just easy to attack people for their opinions on what bothers them and requires less intellectual work than considering where they may be coming from, considering the power of symbols and language in culture, and considering the possibility that stale complaints about an "overly PC" environment are cliched and dense at best, and covers for prejudice at worst.
I will never understand why it is so controversial to be a feminist, when it's not controversial to be, say, anti-racist.
ducks!
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8933/cgmk4.jpg
Everyone mentions that $1000 isn't a lot of money, but I think Atlanta could use it for something better than re-labeling signs.
And finally, I'm not at all surprised that this started in Atlanta. We are the crown jewel of political correctness. I've lived many places, but here everything has to do with whether you're black, white, young, old, male, female, etc. Yes we're from the south. We have a history that isn't the most understanding of others differences (to say the very least) but to go overboard in political correctness (especially when common sense goes out the window) is unnecessary and counterproductive.
Because if the idiots don't start flipping out, how will the rest of us know how cool and jaded and above-it-all they are?
Toss in some sexist jokes and gratuitous use of the word "feminazi" and you have the gold standard Trifecta Of Moron that always comes up around issues like these. Thanks for keeping standards low, commenters!
As a women who is offended by these "equal rights" arguments from the feminist camp, I can answer your inquiry. A sign that reads "men at work" in no way offends me, OR limits my right as a woman. What am I no longer allowed to do because of the words on that sign? Am I forbidden from driving? Can I not vote anymore? Must I give up my job? Should I instantly become pregnant and slave away for my husband after reading that?
Women who do choose to be offended by verbiage on a sign they'll MAYBE see for a total of thirty minutes in an entire year, are wasting time and money. There are so many other real trespasses against women that such petty complaints from a group of women who have never known true discrimination is an embarrassment to our gender.
In a world where women are still subjected horrors like female circumcision, anyone who bitches the words printed on a sign is a crime against their rights - should be ashamed.
@violet - Let me just address a few points. I am against any costly public works project that wastes money. You obviously missed where I am coming from, and I feel that this is a waste of money. So, you're wrong about me, which is unsurprising.
I also don't believe in being wasteful because a few people are offended by something. I don't care about pleasing a few people who are overly sensitive, as this woman is. If you do not see that, then, sorry, but you are overly sensitive as this is utterly meaningless.
Political correctness breeds hypocrisy and resentment. I find that when people couch their words in PC terms, they are doing so because it's not really what they mean. I would prefer to have someone call me what's really on their mind so I know where I stand with them. And that is what I mean when I say language changes nothing about reality. The reality doesn't change, the language merely takes on a connotation that is both insincere and ultimately more insulting.
Your comment was certainly degrading to men. Am I offended? No. I am not a man nor do I take up causes. I have better things to do with my world. If someone comes out and says the same thing referring to women, then it would immediately equate to insisting that women stay home and breed.
The only point radical feminism has, or any form of radical thought for that matter, is to bring about sensible moderation. Quite frankly, I don't care if the sign says "men at work", "people at work", or whatever. However, when it comes at a cost to the taxpayer in a world where there are issues that should take precedence, then there is a problem. Because one woman whines about a road sign and gets a bunch of radicals wound up is no reason to waste money, no matter how cheap the sign.
Gender neutrality in all things might seem all pretty and equal, but in the end, it promotes a cultural androgyny that is quite frankly, sad. A road sign, again, is meaningless, but the fact that some wing nut wants to waste money on the matter that might be better spent on actually, you know, doing something good and useful, is simply ridiculous and makes all women look like radical bra burners that no one truly respects.
If you don't think language changes reality, you're not paying attention. Our entire existence is colored by language. The first step in understanding something is applying language to it, and the words we choose have a fundamental effect on perception.
The only females I've ever seen working at the side of the road were doing the easy job of turning the STOP sign every two minutes.
That being said, it's surprising - no, ludicrous - that Atlanta still has Men at Work signs.
Are you actually responding to my comment? Because I don't see how your points (that discrimination exists, that culture is hypocritical, and that I am somehow fooling myself) have anything to do with my point (that language affects reality).
@ted:
Goodness knows we don't want to upset sexist, racist, and prejudiced people. It's probably best just to let them go unchallenged. Excellent idea.
I believe in equality, but I earn my respect as an individual, not by strong arming people into using gender neutral words, which to me, merits no respect.
c dub, get a grip. Me, being a child of the 60s, seeing the bullshit it brought, and then the changes that have come with time, no PC naming of the problem changed anything.
If you haven't lived long enough to have witnessed the riots, police brutalities, fancy names for war, and the political hedging used to go around the problem, then go back to you xbox360 and spout crap to the other 13 year olds you play with.
Those were "examples" of language not effecting reality? Honestly, I don't see any connection whatsoever.
@Tim Giachetti:
So we should still be calling African-Americans "n******" (there's one example) because words and labels are meaningless? The fact is, Tim, that the language we use DOES change our attitudes in a fundamental way.
@ted:
If someone, bigoted or not, has a problem with equality, they have to deal with it: don't expect me to change my behavior to accommodate them.
The signs ARE sexist. So much of our language and culture disappears women and the work that we do. I have, in fact, worked for road crews, and I did a damn good job, better than some of the men, but that wasn't good enough to prevent the name-calling, the sexual harassment, the belittlement--all because I had the audacity to have a vagina and do manual labor at the same time.
These road signs add insult to injury to women all over the country who bust their butts doing the best job they can to get the job done and go home. Their contribution shouldn't be erased or silenced by state-funded signs, and they certainly shouldn't be called bitches and feminazis because they're trying to be treated like a human being.
Your comment to Tim also show your insistence in being dramatic and purposely thick.
He hasn't lived through any real problems yet except the lies he's told about Iraq.
Move along and don't feed this troll.
Buh Bye c-nub
Actually, I think all of your examples are proof of language affecting reality. Think of the prevalent use of the n-word, and then other terms used against African Americans. As their place in society has become more secure and their opportunities to succeed have increased, the usage of these words has been condemned. That's language reflecting a change in culture and helping to facilitate it.
Look at the condemnation of the term "retard" and it's counterpart, Mentally Challenged, today. I mean, the fact that these PC terms have even become the norm show that language reflects societal change on a fundamental level, and helps to facilitate that change in the real, everyday world.
I think that it's not so much for the passers-by that are women, it's the workers that matter. And, if you read the article, you'll notice that 50% of the crews that actually work on the roads are women. I think that's an important 50% to be acknowledged, don't you?
I have to disagree. The use of language has not affected the way people are treated. I'm not talking about use of the N-word. That's not a word that has ever been truly acceptable, but if you take the term African American (here goes a tangent), first of all, black is not a bad or negative word any more than white is. Secondly, African American suggests division (thought I don't feel it creates it) and is inaccurate. Division because it separates people from being simply American, inaccurate because most AA's in the US don't have a relative in living memory that has ever even set foot in Africa. Seriously, my parents were born in Cuba, but that doesn't make me Cuban-American. Secondly, as a person married to a white man from Africa, if we were to move to the States, he would have more of a right to be referred to as an AA than any black person out there, but that would never happen because everyone wants to hang onto this facade of being multicultural by using all the right phrases.
Society doesn't need a sanitization of language to "change" anything, because it doesn't. That change has come gradually through the different movements that concentrated on equality through realistic and intelligent means. Language that is sanitized and changed to please some perverse need create a new word for everything is as I have said before, breeding hypocrisy. It is much easier to hide behind PC terms and act in racist/sexist ways. I've been there/done that working in the construction industry. To be offended by a "men at work" sign is just looking to be offended and chomping at the bit for drama.
Furthermore, I could care less about acknowledgement so long as I am getting the pay check and the respect on the job that I deserve. I don't deserve it for the mere fact that I am a woman, but because I do my job well and treat everyone fairly. That is why when I was working, I did very well in the corporate, male dominated environment. I don't see men and women, I see people, and I don't stick to my kind when they don't deserve it. Having a set of ovaries doesn't make a person more deserving, as many feminists seem to think because they are in a mindset that the oppressed should become the oppressor. If the sign says "men at work" and I am on that road crew, who cares? I am not out to prove anything to anyone that's driving by. I really don't care about the perceptions of others, nor do I need a pat on the back. That's asking not for equality, but for superiority.
Gender neutrality is a silly notion created by silly people who found that after the womens' movement began to make serious strides, they were losing their relevance. Therefore, they started to get more vocal about changing the language, which again, means nothing. Rather than doing productive things for women, they sit around looking for things to complain and whine about. No one in their right mind respects a whiner, and I have zero respect for this woman who is out to change road signs, nor do I have any respect for the City of Atlanta for complying. There are better, more useful things to do.
To those who say that Atlanta should use the money to fill potholes, or whatever, I'd like to point out that Georgia has some of the best roads in the country. We may be 49th in education, but dammit, we've got great roads.
To those who use this comment section to accuse anyone who's for womens' rights and equality of being a feminazi or whatever (regardless of how senseless this particular issue is), eat a dick.
I honestly don't see any "examples" in any of your comments of where language hasn't affected reality -- I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, I just can't find them. Maybe I actually am missing something. And my comment about the N-word was a perfectly rational response to anyone who argues that words and labels don't matter. It doesn't suit your argument, though, so you disparage it (and me). Let's just say that I'm not crushed.
I do agree with some of your points: I think "African American" is often inaccurate (although I won't argue with anyone who wants to be identified that way). But your contention that the words we use to describe things have no bearing on our attitudes towards them is patently and demonstrably false. If I were to call my wife "Bitch" every day rather than "Sweetheart," you don't think that would color my attitude towards her? Words carry weight, and to deny that is to deny the entire history of human discourse. Yes, I understand that no one is talking about the difference between the words "bitch" and "sweetheart," but you (and other commenters) have taken this opportunity to make blanket statements about the effects of language -- so I'll respond in kind. Frankly, I don't think these road signs would bother me much if I were a woman on the crew, but we seem to be debating much larger issues.
From there, your last comment goes off the rails entirely. You don't want acknowledgment, only respect, but simple acknowledgment is the most fundamental form of respect. No one in this story is asking for special treatment -- only equal treatment. No one is asking for a pat on the back, or to be considered more deserving -- only equally deserving. No one is trying to become "the oppressor" (and you thought my earlier comment was prone to drama). Reading your comment makes it clear that, at some point, you decided to describe accuracy and equality as "special treatment" -- a term that creates the specific reality of your argument. How odd, and how ironic.
Acknowledgement and respect are two very different things. And if those women on the road crew don't care what the sign says, aren't they really the only ones that matter?
A sign does not equate to equal treatment just as words don't, neither does language. If one is asking for acknowledgement, they are asking for a pat on the back. Is anyone patting those guys on the back? A sign surely isn't. They don't care what it says either, no doubt.
The radical feminist that is so overly sensitive that she can't drive by a "men at work" sign without getting bent out of shape over it is looking for the drama. She is the radical that seeks to oppress the oppressor. Having taken tedious classes during my uni years on Feminist Philosophy, I do know what I am talking about. The changing of language is a misguided attempt to gain an upper hand.
Personally, I don't care what the sign says, but when it costs even 1/5 of a penny to change it for the taxpayer because one small radical, man hating group has issues with it, then I have a problem. And trust me, this is the type of feminist that thinks all forms of sex between men and women equate to rape and a power struggle. I don't have a problem with feminism until it becomes radical in this manner. I hate radicals of any kind, and I will say that at the risk of sounding radical myself.
A bigot is going to say one thing and think another no matter how much you drum language into them. That's the bottom line about language. It's not changing what was changing just fine on its own.
It's a SIGN.
And if I'm working on a road, whether I've got a vagina or a penis, I'd like drivers to know it.
Call me a man if you like-- just don't run me over.
Seriously. PINK needs to focus its priorities. Because unless we've solved every other issue of gender (not female) equality, this is a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources.
Pffft.
I reiterate that I once worked on a road crew, and most of the women I worked with disliked the signs because it was yet another way their contribution was ignored or belittled, even though it was always at least equal to the work the men were doing.
It is disheartening to go to work every day and have your petty, mean-spirited co-workers not only dehumanize you and silence your contributions, but to also be the only ones whose work is recognized and respected.
Look at the number of posters here who have said, in effect, that the signs shouldn't be changed because there aren't many women on road crews. We are there.
Take a reality check on your male privilege, or if you're female, ask yourself why you want that patriarchal pat on the head so badly. It's certainly not doing much to further the condition of women.
In my best un-politically correctness, if all you douche bags want the change, fucking pay for it out of your own pocket. Get a fucking life with what's left. Move the fuck on.
It's useless to try to reason with the unreasonable.
Acknowledgement comes in a pay check, a promotion, a pension, not a stupid sign that no one really notices. Respect comes with the individual that earns it through action. They are very different things. I can acknowledge a terrorist, but that doesn't mean that I respect them.
Fantastic, we agree on the use of the term African American. You used it, so I used it. Get over it.
If you don't think the n-word was acceptable at one time, you really need to research. Not only was it used throughout America until the 1800's, but it continues to be used in many areas today.
As I stated, the language is a sign that change is happening first. The fact that people switched to the term "Negro", and then to "Black" was just evidence that attitudes were changing. However, when people used those terms, their children learned that the old terms were offensive. I, as a child, was told never to use the words N***** or Negro to describe a person, I was told to use Black or African American. I was told why. I'm not going to say that my parents telling me not to call Black people an abominable name caused me to be more accepting of people of a different race, but it definitely had an impact on me (and generations of children with parents like mine).
That whole third paragraph is you. Fantastic. Glad you feel that way. Not everyone does. I don't care that all the literature about my place of work refers to the tutors as "he" and uses male pronouns, but if another girl did I wouldn't call her a whiner or feminazi for it. The fact is, if we change language, people don't associate those jobs with a specific sex. It's psychological, and it happens.
I don't care one way or the other, but saying "This woman is crazy" or the equivalent is just as useless as changing the signs. If you're going to continue complaining about those who whine, you're not getting out and doing something productive. Why don't you?
"It is disheartening to go to work every day and have your petty, mean-spirited co-workers not only dehumanize you and silence your contributions, but to also be the only ones whose work is recognized and respected."
I've worked in a few places where women were the ones doing this. Guess what? It goes both ways, regardless of sex.
"If the women on the road crews want it so badly, they can pay for the signs."
That is the stupidest thing I have ever read. If you had a job (not that being a housewife isn't a job, it is, I just mean a job back in the corporate world), and your office decides to upgrade computers, how bout they make you pay for it? Or, here's an idea, if the city decides that you need to use extra special envelopes, how about- instead of your company- YOU pay for it? Your comment was completely idiotic.
Women want to be recognized for doing their job, and ask for 1/50th of a cent of the people in the area, and they should just shut up and get over themselves? I think not.
Great for you, you were treated unfairly. What she said was true, regardless of what gender you are, and if you feel that way you should take action.
I know the history of the N word. It was acceptable at one time, but always offensive. It was not meant to make a slave feel proud of himself. So, in reality, it was never a nice word. As for Negro, in Spanish, that is the term used and it was never offensive. I don't use it because in English, it's like saying "groovy" or "the cat's pajamas" and "square" and doesn't come to me naturally, but it's not that alien or offensive. And by the way, one of my grandparents is black.
And it comes down to the majority. The majority never even noticed, cared, or cares now about that sign. It's just someone out to make a public point in the worst way possible and it's insulting to all women if they just look at it without feeling like they have to band together and fight the man. Seriously, why hide behind other women and not just be an individual?
As for my doing something productive? I do, actually, but I would rather do for animals in need than people. They are more appreciative. They don't talk. They don't care if someone messes up on their gender. I have all sorts of time to take up pet causes, and I do that. Radical feminists are not one of them.
So by your reasoning, as long as the majority doesn't care, social injustice is just fine. Brings to mind the majority's attitude during the Holocaust, Jim Crow laws, and women's suffrage.
Oh well, as long as the majority's cool with it...
This sign issue is maybe the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If that's what these so called women feel they need to feel equal or valid, then they are pathetic individuals in need of some real meaning in their lives.
And really, what a cheap shot, Lenore. A sign, the use of language, hardly compare to the Holocaust. You really shouldn't cheapen atrocities that way.
I'm not comparing the two events, that would be completely stupid. I'm saying what you said, your exact words, actually, apply to much more than the sign argument.
"And it comes down to the majority. The majority never even noticed, cared, or cares now about that sign."
The majority fails to notice or care about many things. That doesn't mean they should be ignored.