Journalist Earnie Pyle used to say "There are no atheists in foxholes" ... but in this case, he was wrong: Army Spc. Jeremy Hall lost his belief in God after two tours in Iraq ... and is now suing the Army for discrimination:
His sudden lack of faith, he said, cost him his military career and put his life at risk. Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety.
In March, Hall filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Defense and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, among others. In the suit, Hall claims his rights to religious freedom under the First Amendment were violated and suggests that the United States military has become a Christian organization.
"I think it's utterly and totally wrong. Unconstitutional," Hall said.
Hall said there is a pattern of discrimination against non-Christians in the military.
I know that being an atheist would be bad if you were captured. Muslims viewed Christians, Jews, Buddhists, what have you as convertable and at least you could be saved (assuming they didn't kill you out right for being an American Soldier) but as an Atheist you were viewed as "beyond saving" and pretty much cut from the herd. This is hearsay, mind you, from some Special Forces friends on the ground down range.
Does the Army embrace Christian ideals? Yes. Does the Army encourage you to become a Christian? Yes. Is the Army a Christian organization? Maybe.
That being said, was I ever pressured into becoming a Christian or attending Christian services? No. Did people ever make jokes about my religion? Yes, just like I did about theirs. Was I ever harassed, treated poorly, given extra duty, or denied a promotion because I'm not a Christian? Never.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest this guy's a tater-dick if he needs a bodyguard.
The one was a girl, and everyone disliked her. She was lazy, ugly, fat, and smelled.
The other was a guy, and everyone liked him, because he was just the nicest guy you've ever met.
Clear proof of sexism.
Anthony: Just because it didn't happen to you, and you never saw or heard instance of it, doesn't mean it can't and didn't happen. And you've obviously never been victim of mental abuse. You should be thankful.
Scooby: Just because you say it happened to you doesn’t mean that you were the innocent victim, nor does it mean it's systemic. Anthony's examples show that if you don't push your belief system, you're less likely to get harassed and screwed with. I guess it does come down to ego and status. Here's what likely happened in your situation; you didn't like being in the minority, so you pointed out the Christian guys' obvious mental inferiority (you were only trying to help.) They responded as most any group of testosterone-charged young males would be expected, and made you their target. And you pushed back, and they pushed harder. Am I close?
In my experience with military types, most guys have a live and let live attitude, so being in the minority doesn't automatically make you the victim. You have to really want to be, and try really hard.
The irony of this controversy is that some Scientists are Atheists, and they are the ones discovering the medical cures that wounded soldiers need to increase their odds of survival.
Many who research DNA are Atheists; their discoveries and inventions have aided in finding cures for diseases that many Soldiers have gotten vaccinated for to help them remain healthy.
How would they respond to those same life saving Physicians if they met them face to face?
Does the Army embrace Christian ideals? Yes. Does the Army encourage you to become a Christian? Yes. Is the Army a Christian organization? Maybe.
That being said, was I ever pressured into becoming a Christian or attending Christian services? No. Did people ever make jokes about my religion? Yes, just like I did about theirs. Was I ever harassed, treated poorly, given extra duty, or denied a promotion because I’m not a Christian? Never."
....
..........
............
.......
... so they made fun of your religion.... and you're an atheist...
Can't we have an IQ requirement on the comment section?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
Upon reading a large book called a dictionary, you will find that words often have several layers of meaning. Fortunately, some dictionaries have pictures.
Notwithstanding your narrow interpretation of religion as theism, I often like to put down random religions on forms I have to fill out such as Buddhism, Gypsy, or whatever else I felt like at the moment. I occasionally get flak about that, so, yes, they make fun of my religion.
Gypsy = Not a religion.
Buddhism = Tenuously described as a religion.
NYC:
Just for reference, over 90% of members of the National Academy of scientists descrbe themselves as Atheist or otherwise non-religious.
Well that's what you get when you havce evangelical Theists in charge.
They feel that your kid was torn limb from limb by an IED for the little baby Jebus.
And your kids soul will be winging it's way via celestial UPS truck to the nice shiny heaven.
So rest easy america, Sky Daddy is operating these mooks via divine inspiration.
It's not the first news article I've read about discrimination against atheists in the military, so I doubt it was Hall just being "a pussy" or "pushing" his lack of faith on other people. He's just the first one to actually do something about it, which I can only applaud him for.
Johnny Cat said: "They make a big ass deal out of their atheism, to the point of irritation."
So, refusing to pray or going to mass is now "making a big ass deal"? Aren't the Christians being pussies here, getting all butthurt about somebody not believing in their god?
Moodindigo said: "Atheism = A philosophical stance against theism, not a religious belief."
There's still such a things as religious Atheism.
Religion encompasses more than just theism. As you said, Atheism is the rejection of theism, the disbelief in any gods or deities; it does not exclude other religious beliefs. (For example: Jainism or Humanistic Judaism)
Perhaps it is just a coincidence then that my son, after a few weeks in boot camp requested that my mother send him a cross to wear (since almost all the guys wore one) and is planning to be baptised.
Particularly in a military environment, one which discourages independent thought and encourages conformity, it seems likely that there is a not-to-subtle pressure to fit in.
Sure, there are vaild reasons to sue, but I suspect this guy brought on the abuse by being obnoxious about his athiesm. Being obnoxious certainly does encourage abuse.
The only thing that bothered me was that my dog tags read "No pref" for religion, implying that I was indifferent to the religious ceremonies to be carried out upon my death. This was wrong of course. My "pref" was none.
This blog entry has some excellent, informative links:
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/009562.php
Which movie folks?
People on here are talking about the irony of medical personal being atheist...Just as you would not think a wounded soldier telling his doctor to be Christian isn't going to fly; you think a doctor would tell a wounded soldier who faces injury and death that his God is BS? Hell no. Some people need god just to feel that in the worse case scenario there is still something for them.
I'm an atheist, but I don’t have the need to argue or push it on anyone. And when the reverse happens to me I just smile and nod. Why should I care if someone else is a devout follower of mumbo jumbo? If it makes them feel better great, if they think I'm going to hell because I don’t believe fine, and if I have to play along out of respect because it's appropriate for the situation, no big deal anyway. It's not a loss to me because I didn't believe in anything in the first place.
And does this dude not see the irony in him feeling like a victim, when we are fighting in one of the most religiously oppressed regions in the world. Next time he wants to cry, go ask an Iraqi woman how swell her life and sense of religious freedom is… and suck it up. (BTW this is not a blanket statement that Islam is inherently oppressive, just that the practice of Islam, especially in Iraq and Iran is horribly oppressive)
And if you have some tremendous sense of being a special individual, and aren’t willing to give that up, then don’t joint the military. I sure as hell didn’t.
I didn't mean to come off pro-army, just anti-Hall.
...shutting up, now.
Sure, there are vaild reasons to sue, but I suspect this guy brought on the abuse by being obnoxious about his athiesm.
Does anyone know if he was wearing a short skirt as well?
Certainly I believe the part about the Christians getting out of chores. It was the same with me, but it was, like, an hour of mopping, then I could sneak a nap behind my locker. Maybe you had it worse.
However, I don't believe late night sex parties were going for two reasons: there's someone in charge of quarters at night on a company and battalion level that the drill sergeants would have to get around. Plus, how much sleep do the trainees get in basic training? 6 hours, if they're lucky? Drill sergeants wake up the trainees and put them in bed, and you're telling me they were staying up to party? Please.
By the way, I'm with Anthony in calling BS on your late night sex party story. That crap just doesn't happen in real life.
Print out the image, make it into stickers and tshirts, spread the word
I'll also affirm that as an atheist, I got extra duty while others were in church, was occasionally harassed, and a few times, felt extremely pressured by others higher in the chain of command to convert to some form of evangelical christianity. Never thought to sue over it, though.
Finally, in my basic, they had several drill instructors for our company, and we only occasionally had the one who did final inspection and lights out wake us in the morning. Most of the time they rotated schedules. And they did, in fact, bring a cooler of beer to their office more than once, in large part, I think, to tease us.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU,
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU,
HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR JESUS
HOW OLD ARE YOU?"- full metal jacket
Anthony I don't care if you believe me or not I was there I know what happened. And since your name is Anthony and you're a guy I am assuming we weren't in the same platoon or company and I suspect not the same year either so I bet your experience was different than mine. We never had anyone but our Drills or Fireguard in our bay at night looking over us and our Drills office as well as a storage/TV room was part of our bay. I don't think they had to wake girls up I am sure some of them were quite willing to go, still doesn't make it right does it.
I saw this kid in a video, and he seems wiser than his years, thoughtful, and sensitive. If he were just another a** hole, he'd have tell-tale signs of it, as well as suing for money, which he isn't.
At night out at sea, the ship's pastor always said a prayer over the ship's intercom (1MC) that seems to be Christian and military biased.
In Navy boot camp, my recruit division commanders used to talk about their belief in god. It was very upsetting to me because I felt like it was a slap in the face, it was as if they were calling me stupid but I couldn't say anything back to them because I would have got punished.
Even though the military states that we had freedom of religion, sometimes while eating at the galley on Naval Air Stations, military pastors would come around and start talking to us about their imaginary god.
Though I was raised Hindu, but I've always been an Atheist, and I still don't eat beef or pork because of personal preference.